Author Tammy Kaehler - Kiss the Bricks and Women in Racing

Author Tammy Kaehler Her Book Kiss the Bricks and Women in Racing

by The Earl of Indy, Robert Earl |

Mystery/Racing Novelist Tammy Kaehler joined 33 Dreams of Indy to talk about here series of books that follow the racing career of a fictional female racer – Kate Reilly. Kiss the Bricks is Kaehler’s 5th book and it takes place during the month of May leading up to and including the Indy 500.

Tammy’s book is not just an edge of the seat mystery story. It also explains some aspects of racing in detail that all can understand, race fan or not.

She also explores the challenges faced by her character, Kate Reilly, as she is a female racer facing barriers that are not just on the track.

During this interview we talk about the book, Tammy’s path to racing and about challenges faced by women in racing in 2020.

I hope you enjoy and would love your feedback and comments. It is my intention that this interview is the first of many in a series on women in racing and why there are so few opportunities for female drivers.

Here you go, Episode 21:

Robert Earl: Welcome back to 33 Dreams of Indy. I’m your host, Robert Earl and today I’m joined by Tammy Kaehler. Tammy, how are you doing?

Tammy Kaehler: I’m good, thanks. How about you?

Robert Earl: I’m doing fantastic. Tammy is a mystery novelist. Her books have followed the adventures and career of a fictional Kate Riley as she pursues her dreams of Indy in her racing career. And I got my hands on her fifth entry, Kiss the Bricks, and matter of fact spilled coffee on it, and had to actually get it on Kindle as well, because I could not put it down. But this is the fifth in a series at Dead Man’s Switch, where Kate follows her American Le Mans series as she starts out. Breaking Points, which is set at Road America and Petite Le Mans. Avoidable Contact, you jump into the 24 hours at Daytona, I’ll be there here in a just a couple of weeks. And then Red Flags, where she participates at the Long Beach Grand Prix, but then also starts to test Indy cars and then is a? To set the stage, she’s a full time participant on the IndyCar series and is successful in the Indy 500 when we enter into the story, correct?

Tammy Kaehler: Yeah, that’s correct.

Robert Earl: Fantastic. Welcome to the show.

Tammy Kaehler: Thank you.

Robert Earl: How did you get into writing?

Tammy Kaehler: I’ve always been a writer in my career. I started out in college admissions actually, strangely enough. But I gravitated to any of the writing or the publication tasks in that job. And then I had the good fortune to be hired as a technical writer by a manager who was looking for someone who wasn’t actually technical, but could translate. And that sort of launched me into a tech writing career. I was very active writing websites and things for the web 1.0 version, when all of a sudden everyone needed a website and no one had anything. And I specialized in small technical companies. So I’ve continued that. I still do a lot of web content these days. Everyone needs web content, got to have content got to have content. So I do a lot of that kind of writing.

Tammy Kaehler: But fiction didn’t come along because I was not one of those kids scribbling stories or writing all the time. Never wrote fiction. I’d have told you I couldn’t write fiction.

Robert Earl: Really?

Tammy Kaehler: Yeah. Yeah. Strange. I just didn’t feel like I had that in me, but that came along in 2003 so it’s been some years now. I woke up one morning with an idea, just this scene in my head that wouldn’t go away. And I kept going, “That’s weird, that doesn’t happen to me, this is fiction.” So I think I’m running into probably some of your other questions, but I’m just going to keep talking. I found a class actually near me at a very good independent bookstore that was called, Do You Have a Book in You? Because I figured that that was the question. And so I started writing and I kept writing. This was not mystery, this was not racing, none of that. But I kept going and explored this new world to me of writing fiction and finished a manuscript. It’s terrible. It’s terrible. No one will see it ever. It’s fine. But that taught me about how to do it and the diligence required and that kind of thing.

Robert Earl: You remind me of Simon Pagenaud talking about the first ever time he drove a go-kart. And he hit everything but the pace cart-.

Tammy Kaehler: That’s awesome, that’s a great story.

Robert Earl: I think that’s how he puts it in. And the first time that he went out there. So where did racing come into the picture?

Tammy Kaehler: In 2004 I was working freelance. Those were the heady days of the boom. And I was working for, of all things, a subprime mortgage company. And they were making? You remember those days too, they were making money hand over fist. And they were also spending it like it was water. And a couple of their executives actually liked to go racing on their weekends. And so they got hooked up with some people and they, of all things, ended up sponsoring a car and the American Le Mans series itself. So I was working contract for the marketing department, and all of a sudden they needed someone else to go do the marketing, which was actually hospitality and hosting mortgage brokers around the country at all of these American Le Mans Series races.

Tammy Kaehler: I knew zip about racing, nothing, but I like learning, I like learning new things. I especially like learning things from the inside out. And so, I was like, “Okay, I’ll go, I’ll go. Pay me more money, I’ll go, whatever.” And I walked into this world and just was agog, like what is going on here? The scope of it, the scale, the money, the violence, the camaraderie, the competition, the business around it that I had just had never realized existed. It fascinated me. So that’s where racing showed up.

Robert Earl: A lot of the tracks right now are offering paddock pass packages, and I would really encourage that. IMSA’s very open. But the IndyCar Opportunity here in St. Pete, that Friday, Saturday is almost as exciting or is more of the story when you see the cars put together and you’re there up close and personal to them where you see them tuning them, those types of things. And that the drivers are a bit on a pedestal, but you see them being regular people on those two days, versus them having their game face at say, qualifying or race day that goes into it.

Tammy Kaehler: Yeah. To me it’s not going to a race unless you can walk around the paddock and peek into the garages, watch whatever’s going on, see the drivers in street clothes, just chatting to their engineers or doing whatever. And I do a lot of lurking in the paddock, just walking around and watching people, the teams but also the fans. And it’s fascinating. It does give you a good inside look.

Robert Earl: I think so. And there’s stories to be told from that, and that’s part of what we’re focused on with those that are looking at the Road to Indy. You’ve said that you’re an avid reader, you look like a Thomas Jefferson fan there behind you with your library.

Tammy Kaehler: My dream bookcase behind me.

Robert Earl: What’s the last thing you read or what’s currently on the list?

Tammy Kaehler: I actually just finished a really great mystery. It’s a standalone, not part of a series, it’s called Unspeakable Things by Jess Lourey. And it was just amazing. Interesting story told from the perspective of a teenager but not a YA book of any kind, but really, really interesting. So I highly recommend that. I read mostly mysteries. A lot of people who write in a genre say, “I can’t read in my genre, at least while I’m writing and all that.” I have to. I read mostly that. It’s what I like, it’s what I write.

Robert Earl: It wasn’t what you originally came from, so it’s always fascinating to see the craft that goes into there. So you’ve written a mystery book. You have this character, Kate Riley. She has her own Twitter handle to be able to go there. So what’s been the reaction to the books and to Kate?

Tammy Kaehler: People who get to her seem to really like her. I think the racing world, people who’ve read the books appreciate the detail and the truthfulness of it, how much I’ve tried to make things an accurate portrayal. People who are not in the racing world like her when they get to her. But sometimes I’ll be honest, the topic is not the most appealing to people who don’t know anything about racing already. “Oh, racing, why would I care?” But if I can get them to read it, they really enjoy it. And I’ve had friends almost get speeding tickets because they were trying to apex the turn, coming off the freeway exit or whatever it is. And I was like, “I’m not liable for that. That’s on you.”

Robert Earl: You’re on your own there.

Tammy Kaehler: But it’s been interesting. It’s been a little bit of a challenge, because I’m looking for the race fans who read or the readers who are willing to look at racing. So I’ve embraced that. I think I was reviewed, God, it was Motor Trend. Someone did a short review of one of my books and was like, “This is a book in a series that will explain to your significant other why you like racing,” which is really what I tried to do, is shine a light and explain to people why I find this world so fascinating

Robert Earl: I’ll touch upon that in a bit because I was intrigued by that, being around racing for a long time. And I see a couple of paths that Kate and her boyfriend could go down in other areas that they could go through. But we’ll talk about that at a different time. What was the the first time that you attended the Indy 500? Because there’s something special about Indy.

Tammy Kaehler: Oh man, there is. I went for the first time in 2014 and there was a reason. I had been through the years slowly meeting more and more people in the racing world. And in April of 2014, at the Long Beach Grand Prix actually, I finally had the chance to sit down and really meet face to face and talk with Pippa Mann, who has driven in the Indy 500 seven times, I think. And that was the first year? We talked, we chatted, I was telling her about my books. I had sent her one. And the thing is Pippa’s my unicorn, because she’s a woman, she’s a pro race car driver and she reads, she’s a reader. So I had sent her some books, she liked them and we talked. And I was talking about, one of these days I need to get to the Indy 500. I want to write about that, and so forth.

Tammy Kaehler: And she was like, “This year.” And she said, “And I haven’t announced it yet, but here’s what the car is going to look like.” And she showed me a rendering of the car. It was the first year that she drove the Susan G. Komen car. And I felt chills. I still get a little chills now, and I was like, “I’ve got to go see this, I’ve got to go see this.” So I went for the first time that year, had no real inside access, just went. And was there for Friday for Carb Day. And it was funny because I’d never really been a fan of ovals. I’m still not a huge fan of NASCAR ovals. I’m being honest, really like road courses, street courses, coming out of the sports car racing, that’s what you’re about.

Tammy Kaehler: But I sat up there in the stands on Carb Day and they pulled out and I went, “Oh, I get it. I got it.” In fact, I think I texted a friend, “I got it, Simon. I got it. I understand it now.” So I went then, but I wasn’t ready to write that book yet. I still had to write Red Flags, the transition Because I really wanted to write about Long Beach. I’ve lived there for 12 years. And I wanted to actively transition her to a different car. So I went back in, 2016 was the year I went to do research. 2017, I went to actually promote and then 2018, I went because I still wanted to go again. And I was fortunate enough and again you just take every opportunity to meet people and you take every opportunity that’s presented to you.

Tammy Kaehler: I was actually fortunate enough to pick up a little job working for ESPN in the pit for those three years. So normally their races are 22 cars and they have their pit reporters and their producer types that go along and coordinate. With the expansion to 33 cars, they have an extra person in the last 10 pits of the? Last 10 stalls of the pits. No on camera talent, just a production person running around gathering information.

Robert Earl: What happened being a runner.

Tammy Kaehler: Exactly. They would call and say, “Something’s going on on the 15 car, go check it out.” And so I got to be that person for three years and that was just amazing.

Robert Earl: To interject, that’s how David Letterman got his start at the Indy 500, is he actually had attended there. But he was on the rail as a local TV announcer, and did an interview during the race right then. And that was our first? Little did we know that David Letterman would become so integral in racing.

Tammy Kaehler: Yeah, such a force.

Robert Earl: That’s a side part on there, is how people get attracted to the race. So you keep coming back to the races there and especially after this. Okay, so Kiss the Bricks. Kate had this dream of being a racer and as you’re talking about, there’s something special about Indianapolis. Is Kate really your alter ego, or is it a way for you to communicate your observations on racing, or is it a blend of both?

Tammy Kaehler: Let me start by saying I’m a chicken behind the wheel. Okay, I’ll just be honest. I got through racing school, but I was by no means pushing the envelope or the fastest or anything. Especially, funny side note. When I went to racing school, there were three young men who had just gone through Jack Roush’s Driver X show, David Ragan was one of them.

Robert Earl: The Gong Show.

Tammy Kaehler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they had just been the three finalists, and they were in my road course racing school. So yeah, in a way it was good because it took the pressure off. I was not going to be anywhere near? I could do my slow thing. Anyways. I’m a chicken behind the wheel, and Kate is obviously not, so that is not me in that respect. But certainly a lot of her voice is mine. Most of her voice is mine. I’m writing, it’s in first person. She’s how many years? Probably 20 years younger than I am. So there’s that difference as well. But yeah, absolutely, as a character, she’s a way for me to get my opinions out there.

Robert Earl: So let’s set the frame of the book because that’s what intrigued me and had me turning pages. And without giving anything away, I’m sharing from the jacket cover that after the first practice session, the way you frame this, at the Indy 500, Kate Riley is stunned to discover that she’s the fastest driver on the speed charts. But she’s also surprised to learn that she was not the first woman to do this. You’re in the 2010s. That actually there had been a fictional driver, PJ Rodriguez, that had accomplished the same fact in 1987. So tell me more about the two women, the fictional Kate Riley, the fictional PJ Rodriguez, and the struggle that they both face. Because I think put down here on the note that there was an atmosphere of prejudice and chauvinism that came out from this. So talk about the two and what they faced.

Tammy Kaehler: Sure. PJ was a pioneer, swimming against the tide for sure. Much like Janet Guthrie and Lyn. St. James. And I deliberately positioned her in between the two, close to the time that that Lyn St. James would have arrived. And she was operating in a much less enlightened time. Kate is certainly driving in a more enlightened time. There are more female drivers around, but she’s still fighting a headwind, let’s say, as are all of the women trying to make careers as drivers these days. They both faced a lot of the same struggles and primary among them as money. I think all drivers struggled with that.

Tammy Kaehler: But by and large you’ve got to bring money to a team. And so I think a lot of what happens is brands don’t see women as their ambassadors. They’re not as willing to get behind women. I don’t know that I’m saying anything controversial. I’m checking myself, am I being controversial, but they obviously don’t because they’re not funding women in the same ratios or numbers as they’re funding men. Obviously there aren’t as many women, but if there were more being funded, we’d see more, et cetera.

Robert Earl: I’ll interject there for a second, because it is something that that is back and forth. And we’ll talk about the level of detail that you go into in the books. But I follow the Road to Indy. And the Road to Indy would be the drivers that are going to fill the seats. I’ll follow it all the way down to the Lucas Oil Racing School Scholarship where they’re trying to get into the Lucas Oil Formula Series. One female participating in the scholarship, one female participating in the racing. We had one female last year in the Road to Indy series and she’s gone to the W Series. And we could have a whole followup conversation, I’m sure, about the W Series. So the Road to Indy is not paved with female opportunities at this time. I got a Twitter comment back to say it’s early in the season and maybe there’ll be announcements, but unless there’s four or five or six announcements, we really still are facing some of the same issues in 1987.

Tammy Kaehler: Right. Again, I think it is a time when we’re more aware of it, but awareness is not yet making change. I guess it’s a step. And I don’t know how to fix it. The whole money thing and the sponsorship thing really frustrates me. I went and actually looked up, because one of the things that just astonished me at the time, this is 2017 and it might’ve happened more recently too. But there was a car sponsored by the Women in Technology Championship, which is an LGPA event held at the golf course at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Women in Technology Championship, female golfers. And they sponsor a car in the Indy 500. And their driver? Zach Veach.

Robert Earl: Tie in with Gainbridge. And it’s their corporate sponsorship and it was a way for them to reach out that goes into it.

Tammy Kaehler: But a man, the Women in Technology Championship sponsoring a man.

Robert Earl: See, now I sound like I’m a little bit defending.

Tammy Kaehler: No, no, no, I appreciate your perspective.

Robert Earl: You have Dan Wheldon for years driving the National Guard car or Brazilians driving the National Guard car when it really was in that situation. So the logic behind it doesn’t always make sense. It’s not just this topic that I was struck by, I was struck by if you are a race fan or you want to know more about racing, pick up the book, turn to chapter 19, and pull up a video of a four lap qualifying run. Because when you’re describing that, it takes you and puts you in the cockpit as it goes through that. And so I commend you on that, and that’s the level of detail that I think comes from your technical writing background, that backup.

Robert Earl: But I detected that there was an understory that was going on. There was a story behind the story of how things were in 1987. How things were, I had to stop one time and say to my wife, is this still going on? That drivers are getting cat calls as they’re walking through from one side of the pits to the other in the 2000s or the 2010s or coming up on 2020.

Tammy Kaehler: And what did she say?

Robert Earl: I take it, it is, if you’re alluding to it or you’re putting it there, that it goes into play.

Tammy Kaehler: Yeah. I don’t know about cat calls. I know of one female in a high position. I haven’t ever gotten her consent to really talk about this, so I’m not going to be more specific. Who after being groped at an event one year, swore she wouldn’t go back to that event the next year. In recent years, this is not decades ago, either. I know that Pippa, every year gets the question, what’s it like being the only female in the field? What’s it like being a woman driving the car? And she’s like, “Car don’t care.”

Robert Earl: And this isn’t just the conversation that we’re having here. You talked about that first day of practice then, of Kate going into the media center and being asked the question of, how did the car feel, how was the experience? Was it a lap on your own or was it a lap in tow? She got asked all of the questions that were the typical racing questions, and then she’d get asked, and this is where it struck me right away. Do you think more people will take you seriously? And this is where I found myself being a point counterpoint type of individual. Because I cannot imagine that question being asked of a top driver. But then again I can imagine it being asked of a rookie that is going into it. If Oliver Askew this upcoming year, or Pato O’Ward, one of the rookies, or the new driver that was just announced for Dale Coyne.

Robert Earl: If they go out and they run a fast lap, they’re going to get asked, will people take you more seriously? But this was really the undertone of it being a, as you brought up, how does it feel to be the only female driver, and you’re doing something amazing because you’re a female.

Tammy Kaehler: Right. First of all in the book, this is Kate’s second year at Indy. So she wouldn’t have been a rookie. That’s a minor detail. And I do see your point. I think my feeling is, and this is born out not necessarily in that specific situation but in similar kinds of situations? I think that basically being a woman in that situation would make people ask the question, no matter how many years experience, unless she’s driving for Penske, right. In which case people are going to take you seriously. But if it’s a female that’s not driving for maybe Penske or Andretti or Ganassi, no matter how many years then? A woman, I feel, and maybe I’m overreacting, I don’t know.

Robert Earl: I’m going to counterpoint you is it was still asked of Danica even though she was with the top teams of the Tony Stewart or with the Michael Andretti. And maybe there’s the fear of retribution of Tony or Michael coming in and saying something to you. It still went on. We still are facing this and we have many different examples where, it is what it is. Now how do we bring attention to it, bring light to it. And this might be? What did my wife say? My wife said that this interview could potentially be part in a series where we explore this. I would like to hear the point counterpoint on the W Series, because the W Series frankly doesn’t make sense to me from a separate but equal.

Tammy Kaehler: I’m not going to be your counterpoint there because I’m in agreement.

Robert Earl: Yet if they’re attracting the sponsorship and they have the sponsors to come on to it, then they are solving the problem that we’re talking about of the money issues and the money coming into it to an extent.

Tammy Kaehler: Sort of.

Robert Earl: So that’s an aspect that goes into it. I was researching for this, because you make the comparisons very well. The mystery had me on? I’ll segue to say the mystery had me on the edge. I didn’t know who it was until it comes all the way through. And there was a couple of different paths that it went down. The theme that was in there. And I think I’m taking maybe a little bit of a soapbox and going in there as comparing that. I looked up 1987, I looked up Indy in 1987. I came across an LA Times article that was entitled, “Why Aren’t Women Racing at Indy?” And this is 10, 11 years after Janet Guthrie, and she was the one that was highlighted in this. And for folks, if they haven’t seen the 30 for 30 highlighting Janet Guthrie, you need to do that because you’ll get a light of what we’re talking about as well. But I asked myself, “Is this still going on? Why is it still so difficult for female drivers or women drivers?”

Tammy Kaehler: Yeah, it’s a question. And Janet in that article, which you sent me ahead of time, I was glad to see it, talks about it being money. Right? It’s, people weren’t going to invest in her because they didn’t think she could do it. And as much as she got there and proved, and lots of other people? She points out A.J. Foyt gave her a chance to drive his car, his backup car around, but then unfortunately couldn’t give her the car for the race. As much as she proved she could handle it and she could compete. She finished ninth, right, the year she had a decent car and was able to finish. They still weren’t willing to fund. And we know, we’ve discussed or you mentioned in a previous interaction, Pippa scrounges all year to get the money.

Tammy Kaehler: She works her tail off all year to get the money to run a single race. And thank God she does. So we still have a woman in the field, but it’s astonishing how much effort it takes to find people willing. And yes, this all goes back to, this is what I was trying to illuminate in this book to an extent, is the? I think I used the phrase before, the headwinds that females are fighting. It’s not just cat calls or why are you here kinds of questions. It’s the struggle to be seen as an appropriate brand ambassador for a sponsor who might bring money. And that was my point about Zach Veach. Zach Veach is great and I think he’s fantastic, but the optics to people who don’t know the interconnections behind the scenes is, Women in Technology and it’s a man.

Tammy Kaehler: So why are we not getting women out there to promote things? There are a whole lot of reasons. I think a lot of them is? I saw something recently, and I do not want to talk politics. This person was talking politics. And the comment was the likability trap. That women have to not only be seen as competent, but also likable. And we see plenty of male drivers who? We’d probably say, man, that guy’s a complete a-hole, he’s a complete jerk, but man, can he drive. Whereas I don’t think we’re ever going to say that woman’s a raving so-and-so, but man, she can drive. So let’s give her all this money.

Robert Earl: And we have the same thing, in 20 years in real estate. We have the same thing that goes on in that. And then in management with it and then the technology field of being in that. There were women that could code so much better than the guys that were in that.

Tammy Kaehler: It’s pervasive.

Robert Earl: So it’s something that I was struck by, I wanted to have a conversation about it. I want to continue to have the conversation about it, because I’m really looking at what is that path, what is that road to be one of them that has the dreams. I’ve got a selfish reason for it because my first 500 that I attended was with Lyn St. James and Sarah Fisher that were in it. And there has been a female driver in 20 straight Indy 500s. So if we take a step back and look at it, IndyCar’s going a lot better than a lot of other sports and a lot of other aspects of it.

Robert Earl: By having that level of recognition and being in there. I worry or I think about or I go through, will it continue? Between now and May, I’ll be thinking about how does that get put together, and will the program be enough financial funding or not just a dog and pony show, but actually be something where it can put a driver-

Tammy Kaehler: Be competitive.

Robert Earl: -Into the field and be competitive. As Pippa finishing 16th last year, she showed herself and was a yellow flag away from being up in the top 10. How it falls into it.

Tammy Kaehler: I was in the pits going, “Come on, give us a yellow.”

Robert Earl: [inaudible 00:30:49] But you did a great job with the book, Kiss the Bricks. I now have to work my way backwards to find what the Road to Indy was for fictional Kate Riley, but a great job of the technical aspect of putting you into what I hear described back from the seat. I’m not one that gets behind the seat, haven’t done that. Nor do I aspire to that path. I’m one that has watched far too much racing. I had a full head of hair when I started doing it. And then the technical aspect of it. From a murder mystery in and of itself, with her sister Holly helping out, and old dad and her boyfriend coming into it. Very fascinating just from that standpoint, if you want to put aside the racing aspects.

Robert Earl: But I also sense there was a story behind the story, and I thank you for talking about that with me, because it’s something that I want to have as a continuing subject as we go forward. Those opportunities from carting to the cars, and then through the Formula series and up to the Road to Indy, is something that I would love to see someone step up and be supportive in a drive for diversity type of program or something along that line.

Tammy Kaehler: Yeah. I want to make two points. One is this. Kate, she’s fictional. I can take all kinds of liberties. So her path to Indy is not the normal one. She didn’t go through Indy Lights or any of that kind of thing. She came through sports cars. So the other is, I would be remiss if I didn’t mention, with your praise of the scenes inside the cockpit. There is certainly a lot of that is owed to my experience technical writing. But it was mostly Pippa. So I got to know Pippa well, and when I came to writing this book, I said, “Pippa, you’ve got to help me.”

Tammy Kaehler: And so I asked her a bunch of questions and she would send me back pages of answers with my question, what’s this like, how are you adjusting this? And I would write the scene and then I would send her the scene. And let me tell you, that’s terrifying, because she’s the expert and what do I know? And then she would correct it and tell me, “No, you would adjust this here and this here and two seconds later you’re adjusting the other thing or adjusting it back.” This book would not be anything, anything without her input, and I can never thank her enough for that. She made it amazing.

Robert Earl: She was an instructor at the Lucas Shootout at Sebring. She did not actually vote because one of the drivers that she was coaching directly was participating in it. The format was that the drivers would go out, so there were three groups of nine drivers. I could not tell who was who in the car, other than the color of the car or if a mom and dad said, “Hey, Johnny’s in that particular car.” So I did not know that. Pippa would give, and the other instructors that were placed at different turns, would give detailed review of each driver that came by. So the banana colored car, the red car, the purple car, and she was able to go through that to the drivers as to what numbers they were. So she’s very giving of her knowledge from that standpoint, from the driver feedback aspect. And I’m going to have the winner on the show as well.

Robert Earl: Eli Navarro. I couldn’t see the track, but yet I had my list of top seven. And that was based upon who was listening to the Pippas of the world or the the RC Enersons. What were they doing? Their feedback, how did they carry themselves? How did they do those things? Emily was one of the top five that went into it. And I had four of the top five on my list of seven by how they were carrying themselves. How are they doing that? And they were the ones who were making notes when Pippa was giving out the information and others, among other items that they did. So she’s great for the sport and I’m as much of a fan. Or I come at this from a fan standpoint, so I’ll definitely be rooting her on to get to that and go through.

Tammy Kaehler: Me too.

Robert Earl: We’ll have to stay tuned to find out what Kate has in store for her next part. Is that a plan to work on another one, or?

Tammy Kaehler: It is, it is. I know I left a giant cliffhanger in Kiss the Bricks. I realize that, I apologize. The family story, right? There’s a lot of backstory about Kate’s family and I left this big cliffhanger, a sealed envelope. I’ve had fans come up and go, “What are you doing?” [inaudible 00:35:50] I’ve taken a break from writing for a couple of years and I’m just getting back to things. I had a bunch of family changes and all kinds of things going on. Moved a couple times. So I am getting back to it. I am starting to think about what’s the next chapter going to be for her? So there will be another one. It won’t be right away, but there will be something forthcoming.

Robert Earl: I will stay tuned. I’ve got you followed. In the notes to this, I’m going to have a link to your information on Amazon so that people can get that on Kindle or order the hard copy of it. I appreciate you taking the time to be on 33 Dreams of Indy. I love interviewing the drivers, especially the young ones. I ask them a question, what will it be like to start the Indy 500. And that tape will be played when they actually end up winning it at some point. So I know that that’s going to occur. But as I envision this, my little baby here, this type of dialogue is something that I want to have as well. I don’t want to just talk about who’s going to be in this seat and who’s going to be in that seat. There’s enough of that and there’s enough great journalists that cover the sport. But I want to tell the stories behind it, and you’re an inspiration from that standpoint. So thanks for taking the time.

Tammy Kaehler: Well thank you. I really appreciate also having a deeper conversation about racing and the stories. I like that too.

Robert Earl: Fantastic. So if you liked this episode, give a comment. We’re on every major player, 33 dreams of Indy, so Apple, Google, the iHeartradio podcast, Spotify. So all the major players that are on that, it’s also on video. So subscribe to our YouTube channel. You guys are tech enough, you know what to do. And with the racing season coming up, you’re going to have a lot of plane flights, so make sure you just add that into your subscriptions and you’ll be able to do it. And Tammy, I look forward to meeting you in person and keep Kate between the two walls and going. And yes, I want to know what’s in that envelope. So I’ll let you get back to work on that.

Tammy Kaehler: Great. Thank you so much for having me here. Great conversation.

Robert Earl: You bet. So until next time, keep dreaming.

Tammy Kaehler - Author of Kiss the Bricks Mystery Novel
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